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cannibalion

 
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gdelote
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: cannibalion Reply with quote
hello,

can it happen that a lion (or other animal in fact) eats another member of its species which has just died?
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Alex
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi gdelote

Interesting question.

Of course Lions in areas like the Serengeti will eat remains of other animals and even a carcass that vultures or hyenas have picked over. Already dead animals can be a major part of their diet in certain regions.

I'm googling to see if I can find anything on this.

Here's something odd:
"Bizarre events then happened at Pirate's death site. We went to check if the dead lion had been tampered with at Zibalianja, and to our surprise about 8 hyaena were lurking in the tree line while at the site were four lionesses, a 10-month-old cub and the late male's compatriot. Pirate was obviously devoured last night and all that was left was a bit of his head and skin. Our assumption is that the hyaena came overnight and fed, but in the process the noise must have attracted the resident pride. They were seen to feed of the dead lion. This cannibalism was difficult to view, with the cub feeding on his father and the females on their mate."

Source:
http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/news/detail.jsp?newsitem_id=7913

Not exactly the fairy tale kind of LION KING like story you would want to tell your kids...LOL! Very Happy This appears to be an extreme but NECESSARY reality lions face for their own survival.

I wish I could find more cases but that's about all so far.
.....
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gdelote
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thanks,
so cannibalism can happen...

but do you think that an hungry lion which see the fresh body of a dead lion, instead of keeping on hunting will eat this easy food.

do lions have scruples ?

what about others species, like wolves or hyenes?

yes I know, I have weird questions on mondays...
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kitty24
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey gdelote and welcome to TH! There are no weird questions around here, we always welcome them. I'm sure Alex will do some serious nerding and get back to you, or even TD or lemur-j, they have an awesome amount of knowledge to share and I'm sure they'll get back to you soon. Welcome once again from Kitty24! Laughing
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gdelote
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've found this...

Cub killing among lions: Of the higher mammals, the lion shows the most definite cannibalistic tendencies. There have been many reports of male lions killing and then sometimes eating young cubs. In almost all cases, however, the male lion is prompted to kill the cub, not from hunger or population pressure, but by a need to safeguard his own offspring. In most cases, the young are killed but not eaten. This is better described as infanticide, the killing of young, rather than cannibalism.
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hazelmharris1
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi and welcome to the forum....interesting subject by the way....off the top of my head male lions will kill other male cubs to protect his own pride, because when that male lion grows up he will try to take over the pride...prides are made up of the same family...i.e sisters mothers daughters nieces etc....sometimes one male ...sometimes two who mate with all of these..and this is why the female goes off to have her young on her own because while she has those cubs she will not mate...if he kills the cubs then she will come into eustrius (sorry bad spelling) again and so will mate with him, and sometimes yes he may well eat the dead cubs or just leave them for the scavengers to eat. While the lioness has no partner to protect her she is very vulnerable.
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vlad
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Greetings gdelote & welcome to the forum! Very Happy

In further answer to your question - here are some links to information that I found on the topic of cannibalism among animals generally.

Pics of different animals eating their own kind:
http://ladywildlife.com/animal/cannibalisminanimals1.htm

More information on this behavior:
http://ladywildlife.com/animal/cannibalisminanimals.html

Essay on Cannibalism in animals:
http://www.priweb.org/ed/ICTHOL/ICTHOL04papers/03.htm

Cannibalism in Animals
http://www.hamshahri.net/musiems/daarabad/inwm/no.8/english/wnw/wnw01.html
"Cannibal is an animal which feeds on others of its own species. Far from being unnatural, around 140 different species show cannibalistic tendencies under various conditions. Cannibalism is most common among lower vertebrates and invertebrates, often due to a predatory animal mistaking one of it own kind for prey. But it also occurs among birds and mammals, especially when food is scarce."

Newtsweek Article on the health risks of cannibalism:
http://www.newts.org/~newtsweek/html/cannibalism_can_kill_you.html

Another article explaining why cannibalism puts animals at a disadvantagae:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15821350.900.html

Article that discusses a particular health risk of cannibalism in anaimals which we've probably all heard about....
http://www.soundvision.com/info/halalhealthy/cowfeed.asp

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gdelote
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, It's clear now...

thanks a lot
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cnickell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howdy folks! I am finally breaking down and writing something. I am responding to the article Alex posted especially the link concerning the cannibalism in Bostwania.
(Source:
http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/news/detail.jsp?newsitem_id=7913).
I would like to put this article in context rather than just reporting an incident on cannibalism. Though it is not common, there is always a reason. I looked up this site and saw that only two to three weeks prior to this unfortunate event, there was an anthrax outbreak in the adjorning camp area. This is highly disturbing to prides to loose love ones. I also do know that these southern Africian nations have a greed problem with allowing trophy hunters hunt. Kenya is the only country wanting to stop this behavior. These big time game hunters are putting tremendous strain on food sources for the lions. Furthermore, Human populations are rapidly taking over their range for hunting and living. Lastly these tourist camps do put ALOT of stress on these species. In short, it is annoying to them. These are a significant possibilities to lead to this kind of behavior.

Male Lions Killing Cubs
When a Male Lion or Lions wins out over a current residing male(s), the first reaction is to kill or try to kill all cubs. However there are occasions where male lions do not kill cubs that are not there own. Why this happens no one has come up with a reason. I have seen it myself on film as well as tv.

Females Saving Cubs
Females do not sit back and allow Males to JUST kill their cubs. They are mothers who are devoted to their cubs. They have ways to figure out how to attempt to save them. They have an 18 to 22% success rate. It isn't high but it does show the females give it their mighty shot as mothers!!! The older the females are the better they are at saving their babies.

One strategy is the female(s) simply leave with the former male which is the most successful and the reason why there are many prides all over Africa. They will fight back as a group though this is risky. If the cubs are between 1 and 2 years old, the mothers will leave with the cubs becoming nomadic. If the mothers are pregnant, they will act as if they are in estrus and mate. When the cubs are born the male lion will believe they are his cubs even though genetically the cubs are the previous male lion. On a few occasions, especially in young females and their first time a take over, they will miscarry. Some argue they abort. However I am not so sure about that stance.

Using the Dominance in a Pride
I have seen many using Dominance in a pride. I do have to share there isn't a dominant female or dominant male in a pride. Lions are interdependent souls. The females own the pride. They live in the pride they are born their entire life and each generation keeps the pride going. Males, poor dears, come and go. They are pretty much at the mercy of the females and their rules and cultural mores. Bottom line, the males have to get with the program if they want to stay and be in good graces with the females.

The older females are mentors to the younger daughters, neices and granddaughters. They continue teaching the ropes and continue helping them when they aren't sure what to do until they do know. Like all human personalities are different, so are female lions; i.e. some are easy going and some can be control freaks. However Big Cats do not have a hierarchial social structure even in the loosely bound of the Tigers, Leopards, etc.

Thanks for listening. I hope this gives some insights and information to the thread. Everyone have a super weekend.
Carol Nickell
North Carolina
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gb3llma
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Carol Exclamation Well, I'm VERY glad you "broke down and wrote something". Very Happy (Good to hear from you!) You've done quite a bit of research and studying up on Lions, that's for sure. Safe to say they are your favorite of the big cats? Wink

Very interesting information here from Carol and loads of good links from Val, I think we can probably say that given the right circumstances.....mainly starvation and availability....just about any animal will turn to cannabilism. It's icky to think about for sure Confused but totally understandable I suppose when there is a starving animal and a source of food right in front of them. (Even if it DOES make me go ICK!lol)

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vlad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Awesome Post cnickell! It is good to hear from you, and I must echo Laura's sentiment - glad you "broke down and wrote something." What a fascinating glimpse into lion society. Don't be a stranger. Wink
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kitty24
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree...Great post, Carol! We def would like to hear more from you here in the forum! Laughing
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BarbaraJ
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Lion Research Reply with quote
Carol -

Wonderful research information, especially coming from someone who has been "studying the big cats for 30 years". Thank you for sharing your insight into the possibilities for their behavior. There are most definitely costs associated with the trophy hunting ( Evil or Very Mad ) and the growth of the human population and development.

Noticed we are neighbors - I'm in Huntersville. Smile
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abby9ak
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm That would be interesting to see.You know it could happen but Not very often though.
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Lioness_2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: lion Reply with quote
On a video or show called "preditors at war" A lioness was in a tree fighting with a male leopard to steal his kill. On her way down she stumbled and broke her back on a tree branch. The next morning her relatives came to the tree, one lion knocked her out of the tree. And they started to eat her. It was during a drought. So they did it to survive.
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