Tigerhomes.org Animal Sanctuary Forum
Click Here to Go To Cams

  FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in 


Madagascar
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    TigerHomes.org Forum Index -> Other Lemur Species
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gb3llma
Baby Polar Bear
Baby Polar Bear


Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2329

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:57 am    Post subject: Erosion Reply with quote
Good Link--Bad News. I have seen aerial pictures of islands that have lost so much of the trees and vegetation that there is a brown-colored ring in the ocean--made that way from the topsoil being washed away. Madagasgar is SO unique, SO special, there really should be a WORLD EFFORT to preserve it!! I vote for making it a WORLD PRESERVE and giving the people who live there jobs as caretakers, and game wardens, of course would be a must due to the ever-present greed of persons who would poach for that almighty $$$$. Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex
Top Nerd
Top Nerd


Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 703
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:35 pm    Post subject: Wow Reply with quote
Ace thanks for the link! Photoshop was used to get some idea of scale. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing!

Would it be safe to say 1/3 of the Spiny Forest has been destroyed?

Exhibit One:

http://www.tigerhomes.org/images/deforestation.gif

Two (isolating the deforestation):

http://www.tigerhomes.org/images/deforestation_intrusion.gif

Three (intact forest):

http://www.tigerhomes.org/images/deforestation_intact.gif

You may need to resize the image if you are using Internet Explorer.

Alex
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex
Top Nerd
Top Nerd


Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 703
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:42 pm    Post subject: 1/3 Spiny Forest Reply with quote
I suppose 1/3 of the Spiny Forest in its "current state" is undergoing massive deforestation. By current state I mean we are not accounting for what fraction has already been destroyed since colonization back in the mid 1800's. I'm assuming the spiny forest used to be much larger than what we see in the photo anyway -- this is only giving us a recent picture of what's happening and not any timeline of deforestation.
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."


Last edited by Alex on Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex
Top Nerd
Top Nerd


Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 703
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:06 pm    Post subject: recent timeline Reply with quote
Here's a recent timeline -- starts in 1973 .

http://www.duke.edu/web/primate/ConservationPages/CImapsFinal/MapAnimaInterval4.html
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex
Top Nerd
Top Nerd


Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 703
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:22 pm    Post subject: TIMELINE Reply with quote
There won't be any Spiny Forests left EVEN in our lifetime (very possible) but I want to see some graphics illustrating "what it was" back in the early 1800's compared to what it is now. Still looking.

"The tropical rain forest of Madagascar before human colonization are thought to have covered much of the eastern coastal plains and the eastern escarpment of the central plateau that runs along most of the 1600 km length of the island. Estimates of the extent of the remaining eastern rain forests have ranged from 2.5 to 6.9 million ha (100ha=1km). In addition, approximately 165,000ha of forest are estimated to have been cleared per year (Science, 1990)."

http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/madagas.htm
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gb3llma
Baby Polar Bear
Baby Polar Bear


Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2329

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:31 pm    Post subject: Links Reply with quote
Thanks for the links--and the comparisons via PS work. Am web-surfing right now because I was trying to find out what was going on with the interior. Nononooooo!! What was once dense forest has been almost entirely cut down. Horrifying and disspiriting!! This sort of thing is happening all over the planet, but NO WHERE ELSE on this earth can many of the species that inhabit Madagascar be found. People ARE endeavoring to preserve what is left, but what a challenge and uphill battle it is. "And all the Gods wept!!"

Beat me to the punch on that post, Alex.
Excerpt from the link provided in Alex's last post:
Prior to 1950 most deforestation that occurred was done by farmers on a very small scale, however, deforestation since 1950 has increased tremendously.


From 1950 to 1985, one half of Madagascar's forests disappeared. In 1985 only 34% of the original forests existing in Madagascar remained. Much of this destruction is for economic reasons; values which many westerners cannot agree. With a per capita national product in 1994 equal to $740.00 and population rate of 3%, the island nation is left as one of the poorest nations in the world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex
Top Nerd
Top Nerd


Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 703
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Links Reply with quote
gb3llma wrote:

From 1950 to 1985, one half of Madagascar's forests disappeared. In 1985 only 34% of the original forests existing in Madagascar remained. Much of this destruction is for economic reasons; values which many westerners cannot agree. With a per capita national product in 1994 equal to $740.00 and population rate of 3%, the island nation is left as one of the poorest nations in the world.


Wow thanks -- yeah there is some good info on that site. I was wondering what or who the poorest countries are. Here's fairly recent list 1996 -- to give you some perspective Canada is #1 US #2 , etc. -- so Madagascar is indeed "circling the drain" developmentally at 150 - UNDP's human development index (the last on the list):

127 Cameroon
128 Kenya
129 Ghana
130 Lesotho
131 Equatorial Guinea
132 Sao Tome and Principe
133 Myanmar
134 Pakistan
135 India
136 Zambia
137 Nigeria
138 Lao People's Dem. Rep.
139 Comoros
140 Togo
141 Zaire
142 Yemen
143 Bangladesh
144 Tanzania
145 Haiti
146 Sudan
147 Cote d'Ivoire
148 Central African Rep.
149 Mauritania
150 Madagascar
151 Nepal
152 Rwanda
153 Senegal
154 Benin
155 Uganda
156 Cambodia
157 Malawi
158 Liberia
159 Bhutan
160 Guinea
161 Guinea-Bissau
162 Gambia
163 Chad
164 Djibouti
165 Angola
166 Burundi
167 Mozambique
168 Ethiopia
169 Afghanistan
170 Burkina Faso
171 Mali
172 Somalia
173 Sierra Leone
174 Niger
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gb3llma
Baby Polar Bear
Baby Polar Bear


Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2329

PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:08 am    Post subject: Homework Reply with quote
You sure have been doing your homework! Surprised Thank you Alex and Ace! Lots of good information here tonight. Wholeheartedly agreed on the need for the people of Madagascar to get involved in preserving........finding alternatives to destroying their resources, which frankly won't need a very long timeline in which to disappear entirely. Then what will they have??? Or us? Their loss is ours also.

Didn't have time to read too deeply tonight, but apparently there are some political/governmental issues needing resolution there. Today(well, yesterday, now) there was a grenade bombing during their Independence Day celebrations, as a protest. 30 people or so killed. With focus on political unrest, it takes away from other issues such as conservation efforts.

There are scientists who believe it possible that they may yet find living Giant Lemurs in the remotest parts. Another amazing creature that Madagascar is home to is the fossa. So much fascinating and crucial wildlife, flora and fauna. Yes, Jason has the right of it......they must be educated.....they MUST KNOW how important this is and strive for alternatives, before it is far too late.

Hand me the tissues, please. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tigerdave
Ocelot
Ocelot


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 3673
Location: where all the animals are !

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well now I am crying !!!

just to let people know that the State 2004 rules for housing 2 lemurs is 4' x 5' x6' Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

and by the way tigers and lions are 10' x 24' and 8' high Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

and for 2 Cheetahs the animal that can run over 60 miles an hour is 20' x 40' Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

lets not even talk about Bears or other Primates and all the rest of the animals but I think you guys get the picture !!!

Yes our world is full of STUPID people not only in other Countries but right here in the GREAT USA Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

I sure would like to meet the people that sat around a table and really put their thinking caps on to come up with these rules Idea Idea Idea

They should be taken out and throw in one of these cages themself Exclamation

And these are the type of people that are in charge all over the world so trust me when I say this all these animals are doomed and are only going to be seen in ZOO and private Sanctuaries
in the very near future because it is way to late and we have had the wrong people in charge for so long and they really don't care about these animals and plants that inhabit our planet ! All they care about is there pay checks and their lives and they live only for today and not for tomorrow Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Until we get rid of these people around the world and put people that really care about our planet and the plants and animals that are still left that we have not distroyed completly this will not stop until it is all gone Exclamation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gb3llma
Baby Polar Bear
Baby Polar Bear


Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2329

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: State Laws Reply with quote
Those enclosure size requirements are horrifying! I am imagining myself standing in a room....arms straight out on each side....moving a couplefew STEPS! in any direction (10x24 was it?) and hitting a wall.....forced to exist EVERYDAYALLDAY in a box.

Does anyone know how long ago these requirements were put into effect? Does petitioning lawmakers help? Every state gets to set it's own guidelines, right? OK, then........ONE STATE AT A TIME. Outdated ideas about what different species necessities are need to be addressed and revised with an eye to ever-increasing data concerning their requirements.
HABITAT REQUIREMENT LAWS clearly need to be updated. I don't know how to get something like that started......but I think I know somebody who does.......hmmmm....going to ponder this a bit.

Agreed! The people who made these laws were surely unenlightened......the ones who could be making the necessary changes have no motivation to do so. Some are lining their pockets by not pushing it.......some just don't care, I imagine. This clearly needs to be addressed wide-scale. The elephant/zoo issues are just the tip of the iceberg, but it's a good start to getting more people aware. Slow going, but perhaps we can make a difference.......public opinion is everything to these guys, you know?

A SPECIAL SALUTE TO TIGERHOMES-DAVE-JASON for providing such wonderful homes for the endangered animals at the Sanctuary. THANK YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tigerdave
Ocelot
Ocelot


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 3673
Location: where all the animals are !

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Those were the new sizes has of 2004 a few years ago it was only 3' x 4' x 5' for Lemurs and 10' x 20 ' for 2 tigers and 2 Lions and for Cougars it was 10' x 10' now it 10' x 20' ...You can build bigger but to pass inspection for a cage for the animals that is all you need !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gb3llma
Baby Polar Bear
Baby Polar Bear


Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2329

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:16 pm    Post subject: Size requirement Reply with quote
That's obscene! What are these people thinking? Or are they? They must have to dig pretty deep for their feelings....wherever they misplaced them. How COULD they! Crying or Very sad That might be OK for a temporary (as in extremely short term) situation....but 24/7? The thought of it makes me ill. Because there are far too many people providing ONLY that and justifying it to themselves somehow. Then there are the ones who get away with even less than that, using the animals as a commodity with which they make a living. I would much prefer those people became extinct instead. Or better yet--what-you-said--put them in one of those enclosures--for a week, even.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tigerdave
Ocelot
Ocelot


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 3673
Location: where all the animals are !

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Remember it was not that long ago and we were hunting and killing tigers for sport by the THOUSANDS and that was in our life time !!! What were those people thinking Question And what about the GREAT hunter SHOOTING African Game to hang their heads on the walls by the thousands what were those people thinking Question And the Ivory MURDERERS what were they thinking ? And we are only talking about our Parents Generation which was not that long ago Exclamation What the hell was all these people THINKING Question Question Question

Most people don't care about animals or plants or our enviorment they only care about Jlo and what she wore the other night or who she is dating or divorsing. This is what most people really care about !

SAD Sad but true Mad Mad Mad

Now you know why the rules are what they are Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

They have been getting better ! And I have notices a difference from when I started so that is good sign ! That why it so important to educate has many people has possible ! Strenth in numbers Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gb3llma
Baby Polar Bear
Baby Polar Bear


Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2329

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:20 am    Post subject: Habitat? Reply with quote
That is a clear example of how people are using exotic animals as a commodity instead of wishing to preserve a species or their habitats. They wouldn't be able to make a living doing this sort of thing if there weren't plenty of ignorant people out there purchasing their animals because "they're so cute/beautiful and I want one". And when these animals grow up and become a nuisance? Well, we know the answer to that, don't we?

This circles back to spreading the word.....getting people educated enough about the consequences.......instilling a reverence for all creatures great and small. Too many are not seeing the whole picture here. They see the beauty of these exotics and want them for their own personal gratification--a lot of them not knowing nor caring enough to think any further beyond that.

So people--while not all of us can or will be in a position to physically go out and rescue or work or house animals in need--we are all reading this forum or watching the cams because of our interest in these creatures. We CAN help by sharing this passion with anyone who will listen.
We CAN help by making a donation, small or large, it all helps!
We CAN help by learning more--the better to share critical information.
Strength in numbers--YES--imagine what WE THE PEOPLE can do with enough of us demanding it.

Along with providing the animals housed at TH with the nicest natural habitats anywhere, this and the cams, and everything else here is part and parcel of this amazing team's MISSION to preserve, conserve and educate, with an eye to providing a future for all.

We can all be part of the support group for these efforts......in some way, shape or form. Every single bit helps. Just help.

Just have to say this again..........TigerHomes, THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU DO Exclamation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject: WISDOM Reply with quote
gb3llma wrote:
Quote:
TH with the nicest natural habitats anywhere, this and the cams,
and everything else here is part and parcel of this amazing team's

MISSION to preserve, conserve and educate, with an eye to providing a future for all.


What beautiful words of wisdom.....
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    TigerHomes.org Forum Index -> Other Lemur Species All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group Theme Designed by Team 101 Designs