Madagascar

[gb3llma]

Good Link--Bad News. I have seen aerial pictures of islands that have lost so much of the trees and vegetation that there is a brown-colored ring in the ocean--made that way from the topsoil being washed away. Madagasgar is SO unique, SO special, there really should be a WORLD EFFORT to preserve it!! I vote for making it a WORLD PRESERVE and giving the people who live there jobs as caretakers, and game wardens, of course would be a must due to the ever-present greed of persons who would poach for that almighty $$$$.

[Alex]

Ace thanks for the link! Photoshop was used to get some idea of scale. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing!

Would it be safe to say 1/3 of the Spiny Forest has been destroyed?

Exhibit One:

http://www.tigerhomes.org/images/deforestation.gif

Two (isolating the deforestation):

http://www.tigerhomes.org/images/deforestation_intrusion.gif

Three (intact forest):

http://www.tigerhomes.org/images/deforestation_intact.gif

You may need to resize the image if you are using Internet Explorer.

Alex
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."

[Alex]

I suppose 1/3 of the Spiny Forest in its "current state" is undergoing massive deforestation. By current state I mean we are not accounting for what fraction has already been destroyed since colonization back in the mid 1800's. I'm assuming the spiny forest used to be much larger than what we see in the photo anyway -- this is only giving us a recent picture of what's happening and not any timeline of deforestation.
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."

[Alex]

Here's a recent timeline -- starts in 1973 .

http://www.duke.edu/web/primate/ConservationPages/CImapsFinal/MapAnimaInterval4.html
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."

[Alex]

There won't be any Spiny Forests left EVEN in our lifetime (very possible) but I want to see some graphics illustrating "what it was" back in the early 1800's compared to what it is now. Still looking.

"The tropical rain forest of Madagascar before human colonization are thought to have covered much of the eastern coastal plains and the eastern escarpment of the central plateau that runs along most of the 1600 km length of the island. Estimates of the extent of the remaining eastern rain forests have ranged from 2.5 to 6.9 million ha (100ha=1km). In addition, approximately 165,000ha of forest are estimated to have been cleared per year (Science, 1990)."

http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/madagas.htm
_________________
"Cleaning my cave."

[gb3llma]

Thanks for the links--and the comparisons via PS work. Am web-surfing right now because I was trying to find out what was going on with the interior. Nononooooo!! What was once dense forest has been almost entirely cut down. Horrifying and disspiriting!! This sort of thing is happening all over the planet, but NO WHERE ELSE on this earth can many of the species that inhabit Madagascar be found. People ARE endeavoring to preserve what is left, but what a challenge and uphill battle it is. "And all the Gods wept!!"

Beat me to the punch on that post, Alex.
Excerpt from the link provided in Alex's last post:
Prior to 1950 most deforestation that occurred was done by farmers on a very small scale, however, deforestation since 1950 has increased tremendously.


From 1950 to 1985, one half of Madagascar's forests disappeared. In 1985 only 34% of the original forests existing in Madagascar remained. Much of this destruction is for economic reasons; values which many westerners cannot agree. With a per capita national product in 1994 equal to $740.00 and population rate of 3%, the island nation is left as one of the poorest nations in the world.

[Alex]

[gb3llma]

You sure have been doing your homework! Thank you Alex and Ace! Lots of good information here tonight. Wholeheartedly agreed on the need for the people of Madagascar to get involved in preserving........finding alternatives to destroying their resources, which frankly won't need a very long timeline in which to disappear entirely. Then what will they have??? Or us? Their loss is ours also.

Didn't have time to read too deeply tonight, but apparently there are some political/governmental issues needing resolution there. Today(well, yesterday, now) there was a grenade bombing during their Independence Day celebrations, as a protest. 30 people or so killed. With focus on political unrest, it takes away from other issues such as conservation efforts.

There are scientists who believe it possible that they may yet find living Giant Lemurs in the remotest parts. Another amazing creature that Madagascar is home to is the fossa. So much fascinating and crucial wildlife, flora and fauna. Yes, Jason has the right of it......they must be educated.....they MUST KNOW how important this is and strive for alternatives, before it is far too late.

Hand me the tissues, please.

[tigerdave]

Well now I am crying !!!

just to let people know that the State 2004 rules for housing 2 lemurs is 4' x 5' x6'

and by the way tigers and lions are 10' x 24' and 8' high

and for 2 Cheetahs the animal that can run over 60 miles an hour is 20' x 40'

lets not even talk about Bears or other Primates and all the rest of the animals but I think you guys get the picture !!!

Yes our world is full of STUPID people not only in other Countries but right here in the GREAT USA

I sure would like to meet the people that sat around a table and really put their thinking caps on to come up with these rules

They should be taken out and throw in one of these cages themself

And these are the type of people that are in charge all over the world so trust me when I say this all these animals are doomed and are only going to be seen in ZOO and private Sanctuaries
in the very near future because it is way to late and we have had the wrong people in charge for so long and they really don't care about these animals and plants that inhabit our planet ! All they care about is there pay checks and their lives and they live only for today and not for tomorrow Until we get rid of these people around the world and put people that really care about our planet and the plants and animals that are still left that we have not distroyed completly this will not stop until it is all gone

[gb3llma]

Those enclosure size requirements are horrifying! I am imagining myself standing in a room....arms straight out on each side....moving a couplefew STEPS! in any direction (10x24 was it?) and hitting a wall.....forced to exist EVERYDAYALLDAY in a box.

Does anyone know how long ago these requirements were put into effect? Does petitioning lawmakers help? Every state gets to set it's own guidelines, right? OK, then........ONE STATE AT A TIME. Outdated ideas about what different species necessities are need to be addressed and revised with an eye to ever-increasing data concerning their requirements.
HABITAT REQUIREMENT LAWS clearly need to be updated. I don't know how to get something like that started......but I think I know somebody who does.......hmmmm....going to ponder this a bit.

Agreed! The people who made these laws were surely unenlightened......the ones who could be making the necessary changes have no motivation to do so. Some are lining their pockets by not pushing it.......some just don't care, I imagine. This clearly needs to be addressed wide-scale. The elephant/zoo issues are just the tip of the iceberg, but it's a good start to getting more people aware. Slow going, but perhaps we can make a difference.......public opinion is everything to these guys, you know?

A SPECIAL SALUTE TO TIGERHOMES-DAVE-JASON for providing such wonderful homes for the endangered animals at the Sanctuary. THANK YOU.

[tigerdave]

Those were the new sizes has of 2004 a few years ago it was only 3' x 4' x 5' for Lemurs and 10' x 20 ' for 2 tigers and 2 Lions and for Cougars it was 10' x 10' now it 10' x 20' ...You can build bigger but to pass inspection for a cage for the animals that is all you need !

[gb3llma]

That's obscene! What are these people thinking? Or are they? They must have to dig pretty deep for their feelings....wherever they misplaced them. How COULD they! That might be OK for a temporary (as in extremely short term) situation....but 24/7? The thought of it makes me ill. Because there are far too many people providing ONLY that and justifying it to themselves somehow. Then there are the ones who get away with even less than that, using the animals as a commodity with which they make a living. I would much prefer those people became extinct instead. Or better yet--what-you-said--put them in one of those enclosures--for a week, even.

[tigerdave]

Remember it was not that long ago and we were hunting and killing tigers for sport by the THOUSANDS and that was in our life time !!! What were those people thinking And what about the GREAT hunter SHOOTING African Game to hang their heads on the walls by the thousands what were those people thinking And the Ivory MURDERERS what were they thinking ? And we are only talking about our Parents Generation which was not that long ago What the hell was all these people THINKING

Most people don't care about animals or plants or our enviorment they only care about Jlo and what she wore the other night or who she is dating or divorsing. This is what most people really care about !

SAD but true

Now you know why the rules are what they are

They have been getting better ! And I have notices a difference from when I started so that is good sign ! That why it so important to educate has many people has possible ! Strenth in numbers

[gb3llma]

That is a clear example of how people are using exotic animals as a commodity instead of wishing to preserve a species or their habitats. They wouldn't be able to make a living doing this sort of thing if there weren't plenty of ignorant people out there purchasing their animals because "they're so cute/beautiful and I want one". And when these animals grow up and become a nuisance? Well, we know the answer to that, don't we?

This circles back to spreading the word.....getting people educated enough about the consequences.......instilling a reverence for all creatures great and small. Too many are not seeing the whole picture here. They see the beauty of these exotics and want them for their own personal gratification--a lot of them not knowing nor caring enough to think any further beyond that.

So people--while not all of us can or will be in a position to physically go out and rescue or work or house animals in need--we are all reading this forum or watching the cams because of our interest in these creatures. We CAN help by sharing this passion with anyone who will listen.
We CAN help by making a donation, small or large, it all helps!
We CAN help by learning more--the better to share critical information.
Strength in numbers--YES--imagine what WE THE PEOPLE can do with enough of us demanding it.

Along with providing the animals housed at TH with the nicest natural habitats anywhere, this and the cams, and everything else here is part and parcel of this amazing team's MISSION to preserve, conserve and educate, with an eye to providing a future for all.

We can all be part of the support group for these efforts......in some way, shape or form. Every single bit helps. Just help.

Just have to say this again..........TigerHomes, THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU DO

[Guest]

gb3llma wrote: